Gunter and Bowditch

[pabrides]

I have Bowditch Practical Navigators from 1800s.  1807, '39, '41, '54, 1916, '95, and 2003.  They list instruments and nav tools in which I am interested.  The Sector and Gunter scale are two math aids that provided skippers with logarithmic and trig scales to facilitate navigation. 

 If any of you have knowledge or references for these and other old world tools Id be pleased to discuss them.  Other tools might be the Gunter Quadrant, back-staff, octant, plane scale, full circle brass protractor and dividers, barometers, speed measuring devices, depth sounders, even their paper charts interest me ... How did they protect them from damage or rot?   

Everything used from the 1800s and earlier has my attention (no batteries)... i want to learn to use those old tools.  I was interested to find out that they used a depth sounding device made of glass tubing that was painted inside with a material that changed color so that as the water pressure at depth squeezed water further up the tube the depth could be recorded.... soooo cooool   ... Ay?

Those 1800s sailors were not as ignorant as I thought...  Maybe we dont give them enough credit... I know I didnt until I started reading those old Practical Navigators.

joe

[Fred_B]

No batteries! Now that's the way to be! Analog!

I was reading in Amundsen's book, "The South Pole"

Get it here- https://www.thenauticalalmanac.com/books.html

...that First Lt. Thorvald Nilsen led an oceanographic expedition in the Fram of the South Atlantic while Amundsen was heading South for the Pole. Prestrud in his portion of Amundsen's book (I hope I have that part correct in what I'm about to write) speaks of a similar device for depth sounding that you mentioned. I can't find the part of the book, presently, which mentions this. I think there was a glass tube lowered on a steel wire, which at a certain depth, would break and admit water into a container so they could measure either depth or take a sample of the water to check salinity.

Laugh all you want but my sailboat, small as it may be, doesn't have a knot meter. I simply count the time interval of an object (bubble, debris..anything) passing from bow to stern. Then I can tell how fast we're traveling. (It's a simple formula which has been precalculated).

In life using battery powered devices I've learned this lesson; whenever needed the most, at the moment of greatest urgency all electronics and battery powered devices will fail you.

More areas of the world were reached and conquered (so to speak) and so many accomplishments were made without electronics.

Joe, this site might interest you-

http://www.SurvivorLibrary.com/

Here's a section on Navigation-
http://www.survivorlibrary.com/index.php...navigation

Be good,

Fred

[pabrides]

Get it here- https://www.thenauticalalmanac.com/books.html
 
Laugh all you want but my sailboat, small as it may be, doesn't have a knot meter.  I simply count the time interval of an object (bubble, debris..anything) passing from bow to stern. 

More areas of the world were reached and conquered (so to speak) and so many accomplishments were made without electronics.

Joe, this site might interest you-

http://www.SurvivorLibrary.com/

Fred

Great stuff, Fred.  Ive been wanting to read that book... now Im going to do it.

Im not laughing...  I applaud your ingenuity and that its-just -about-right attitude.  The astronauts went to the moon on three significant digits... what in the world do you need 3 meter gps precision for unless you are a pilot on an instrument approach or a surveyor in New York city.  Many have lost sight of what's important....It is better to have traveled hopefully than to have arrived (Stevenson, maybe).    

Batteries? I dont need no stinking batteries... to paraphrase Cheech and Chong i think.

The Librarian and I communicate fairly regularly...  I really like the guy.  He has done more to improve my education on subjects of which Ive had mild curiosity than any other human being.  Good on you for bringing him to the attention of the readers here. I actually suggested this site to him a few weeks ago... He said he would include it in his work.

By the way - I read about the glass tube in Bowditch 1916 edition.

joe

[P.Rutherford]

Fellas,

The survivorlibrary also has a very good section on astronomy;

http://www.survivorlibrary.com/index.php...-astronomy

Most of the books in both sections (navigation and astronomy) are not too difficult to understand. It seems to me that present authors writing about similar subjects make them too complicated, full of slang and assumptions. A lot of these points apply to celestial navigation. It's probable that CN didn't pass away because of GPS but rather those interested in the theory and finer points of math took over the instruction and wrecked it rendering it incomprehensible. Lost is the method of "how" and present is the theory of "why".

As an example, think of the navigators onboard ships in the 1700's, 1800's and up to the mid 1960's who had no education or at best a high school education. They did CN and were successful in position finding.

Paul

[pabrides]

As an example, think of the navigators onboard ships in the 1700's, 1800's and up to the mid 1960's who had no education or at best a high school education.  They did CN and were successful in position finding.

Paul

Hi Paul
I watched a History channel documentary yesterday about the great sailing ships,  Cutty Sark, Star of India, and the like... those 3 to 5 masted ships that plied the trade routes.  They talked about the comforts of some of the captains who sometimes brought their families aboard.  They said that sometimes the wives would take over the documentation and navigation responsibilities... Its really a nice documentary with lots of old and new video of windjammers.. They even made some enlightening comparisons between steamers and windjammers. Makes me wish I was born in an earlier era.  I believe even Slocum had his wife with him on some of his commercial trips...  I tried to get into the marine industry but it seemed that you had to be related to someone to get a job... nepotism.  By the time I came around the days of cabin boys, pressing, and Shang-hi were long gone.  I joined the Navy but I never really considered aircraft carriers much of a sailing challenge.... It was like living in a big city that sometimes listed.

Enjoy.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOc0w7dR_dM

joe

[craigsl]

Joe,

Just finished watching the video about windjammers and was indeed thrilled! It comes as a surprise to me that the windjammers had steel hulls and were quite long.

Many times have I seen the Moshulu in Philadephia, PA. but never set foot on her.
Here- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshulu

Thank you,

Craig

[pabrides]

Many times have I seen the Moshulu in Philadephia, PA. but never set foot on her.
Here- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshulu
Thank you,
Craig

Hi Craig... I should be thanking YOU - I had no idea WIKI had that much information on the old sailing ships.  38,000 british pounds new... My last small truck cost that much.  Glad you enjoyed the documentary...  ive watched it about 5 times already... lol

joe